14 replies to this topic

[fatso]

I am a recent graduate trying to find out which field to go into. I am considering process engineering.
I know you use chemcad/aspen or a similar program, but it seems to me like designing a process in chemcad should only take a few minutes. So what do you do with the rest of the time. Do you have to read a lot of research papers? Are you busy looking through equations? Do you have to do optimization with matlab?

Please understand, I already have a general idea of what a process engineer does but I am trying to envision a typical day to see if it is right for me. Please try to be as specific as possible.

[Dacs]

Have you tried creating a simulation file yourself? Because I'm trying to rationalize how you were able to say that designing a process in chemcad "should only take a few minutes".

While I'd agree with you if you're just simulating a single equipment, but designing petrochemical plants involve much more a single equipment. It takes lots of manhours to create a simulation and it's usually done by people who have years of experience under his/her belt to get it right.

It's unwise for someone to let a recent graduate perform this work and expect he/she'll get it right the first time.

That said, there are may specific branch of process engineering. One may be assigned in operations, where you'd actually operate a plant. Some people are into design which are the people who crunch the numbers to get the required specifications. Some are involved in construction and commissioning, which involves going to construction sites at days, even weeks on end.

Which work do you see yourself doing?

[fatso]

Hi Dacs,

Thanks for you quick reply. I'm not sure what field to go into, but I am currently in research and hate it because I feel it is too much reading, it is too mentally exhausting. I want something a little bit more simple. I did do a design project in undergrad but it was way too hard; there's no way I could handle a job like that. But I was hoping that process engineering might be easier because it is just routine stuff after the first few weeks. Am I wrong? Are there a lot of diff EQs? A lot of reading? What makes it take so long? Please explain.

Thanks

[Dacs]

Research and Development of course, will entail lots of reading since you're dwelling with producing new and innovative products/processes

I have to be honest, there's nothing "easy" with our field. Otherwise, I would have ended up doing something like flipping burgers and serving fries to people not that I imply it's easy (at least physically)

In all seriousness, engineering is mentally taxing. I don't think you'll find an "easy" work doing process engineering because in all aspects you have to exercise your neurons to do your job effectively.

If you want to have a "routine" type of work however, I may recommend working as an operator in a petrochemical plant. IIRC, all I did was roaming around the plant, check the status of the equipment, read some gauges here and there, and make myself perspire a lot so my boss would know I really did roam around my area

Then again, there will be instance that you'll have to exercise your engineering skills to solve operations issues. And if there are problems, you're expected to work 24 or sometimes even 48 hours straight. Engineers in this field are usually the "always on-call" type of people, so you have to factor this in. After all, equipments don't sleep, do they?

Anyway, I guess it's very rare to find the "ideal" work anyone seem to fit in the best, so you may have to compromise a bit and change your expectations as well. In the end, the experience you'll get is rewarding and you'll have this fulfillment that you're becoming someone adept on your chosen field, regardless on which kind of work you'll end up with.

Good luck

[S.AHMAD]

Dear Fatso
1. If you don not like readings, neither research work nor process engineers work suitable for you. Both type of work requires a lot of reading. As a process engineer, I found that I have to read a lot for improving my skills and knowledge. I need to keep myself up to date with latest development that is related to my work. Need to understand engineering standards and many many more. We cannot stop learning and reading.
2. Comparing between the two fields, my observation tends to say that research work is less stress than that of process engineering. In addition to reading, process engineers need to confront with all sorts of characters of human being. Some are ok but some are distressful. Because of this that I sometimes hate my own job.

[ankur2061]

Fatso,

A FAQ for process design engineering can be read at:

http://www.cheresour...gn-engineering/

Regards,
Ankur.

[kkala]

...I'm not sure what field to go into, but I am currently in research and hate it because I feel it is too much reading, it is too mentally exhausting. I want something a little bit more simple. I did do a design project in undergrad but it was way too hard; there's no way I could handle a job like that. But I was hoping that process engineering might be easier because it is just routine stuff after the first few weeks. Am I wrong? Are there a lot of diff EQs? A lot of reading? What makes it take so long? Please explain. Thanks

As several members have already noted, Process Engineering is not a routine stuff. It may not be so during a whole career, and this may be attractive or not, depending of individual character. Simulation is only the first step, and it may need a lot of patience and checks to approach reality. After that much effort is needed to be transformed through equipment into a cost effective and safe part of a chemical plant. Even simple things, like a storage tank or a pump, need much study of specifications, standards, working practices, for design and installation.
I recall having used differential equations only once over 35 years (batch operation), probably some few more times that I do not remember. I do not think that the effort is there, rather in understanding processes and sizing equipment, plus the standards etc, so that you can apply all these correctly.
If you do not like professional reading, you may look for Operations in a factory (very good for going down to earth), Construction Supervision, Technical Sales, Inspector, Teacher, etc. Not that you will avoid reading, but it will be less, since you will not always be in the office. In this case you have to learn the necessary data very well (and update it, as needed). An engineer should always learn, but in these fields learning also comes from other sources than reading (to some extend). Some of my colleagues, disliking much reading in University, have managed it well in such branches. But conditions now may not offer a chance to chose, depending on the area you are residing. There are places (e.g. Greece now) where you are lucky to find a job related to Chemical Engineering.

Edited by kkala, 17 April 2012 - 01:47 PM.

[fatso]

Thank you all for your replies.I really appreciate it. I can see that process is probably not suitable for me.

Aside from operations, teaching and sales, what other less mentally-exhaustive jobs are there in chemical engineering.

I know kkala you mentioned something about construction. I did not know there were chemical positions in construction. Can you (or someone else) elaborate a little bit more on that?

Thanks.

Edited by fatso, 17 April 2012 - 04:18 PM.

[fatso]

Also, can someone please explain in detail what an plant operator engineer does? Is it the same thing as industrial/manufacturing/quality engineer (six sigma and etc.)?

Edited by fatso, 17 April 2012 - 08:37 PM.

[LVBob]

Hello fatso.

I'm a process engineer working in a refinery. I've been handling a few units for about 9 months now. When you say Plant Operator Engineer, does this refer to Operations Engineers or Operators? As far as I know, our Operations Engineers work 8 to 12 hour shifts monitoring plant equipment and basically making sure that the refinery's doing alright. They do short-term troubleshooting, quick optimization of equipment and write shift reports at the end of their shifts. For problems requiring long-term solutions (and hence, studies taking too long), it's the process engineer who usually do that.

As for Plant Operators, they do more physical work than mental work. They do routine inspections checking local level, pressure, and temperature readings. They commission pumps, valves, heaters, and other equipment. Eventually, they progress to what we call "Boardmen". These guys monitor process trends, and basically operate the plant at the control panel. They give orders to the Operators at the field, i.e., what pump to commission, which valve to close, what local level gauge to read, etc. Operators work 8-hour shifts. When their 8 hours are over, they need not think of work anymore.

I'm not sure what the usual practice is at other refineries as I haven't met that many refiners yet. But things should be more or less the same.

I hope this was useful to you. Good luck on the job hunt, and choose well.

[Shivshankar]

<sub>Fatso,

Refer to below links,</sub>

http://chem-eng.blog...ngineer-do.html
http://chem-eng.blog...neer-do_08.html
http://chem-eng.blog...neer-do_15.html
http://en.wikipedia....ess_engineering
http://www.wisegeek....engineer-do.htm
http://www.hirednotf...s_engineer.html


In addition what Process engineer must do or what is the role of Process engineer....

* Which technology will be used?
* What standards and specifications will be used?
* What is the expected operating life of the facility?
* Can parts of the facility be reused (if the project is a revamp)?
* Can the process be simplified?
* Are existing utilities and infrastructure adequate to support the new project?
* Are exotic alloys needed, and if so, can lower-cost alternatives be used instead?
* What are the long lead items?
* Who are the client contacts to answer questions, make decisions and issue approvals?
* Determining and documenting the process scope of the facility
* Developing a process schedule
* Developing a cost estimate that is appropriate to the scope
* Determining manpower requirements to execute the process activities according to the schedule and budget
* Managing assigned personnel to execute the scope of work
* Reporting progress to managers and owners, and articulating ongoing expectations and oversight to the process team
* Plan the job
* Manage the schedule
* Manage the budget
* Manage client expectations
* Communicate with the project manager, project engineer and department head
* Manage the process design
* Manage the piping and instrumentation diagrams (P&IDs)
* Manage the process engineering team
* Manage interactions with the other discipline leads involved in the project

Reference: Clarifying the role of the lead process engineer: the LPE can make or break a project, depending on how well he or she clarifies the project scope and produces thorough PFDs and P&IDs.
(E&C PROJECTS-By John Lagace-LeadProcessEngineer.com)

I hope now you will have clear vision what does you want to do ?

All the best !

Regards
Shivshankar

Attached Files

•  WHAT_CHES_DO.pdf   103.29KB   77 downloads

Edited by Shivshankar, 08 May 2012 - 01:08 PM.

[fatso]

Thanks for your replies.


So is a operations engineer the same thing as a manufacturing engineering or industrial engineer or quality engineer?
Are they all the same thing?

[S.AHMAD]

Dear Fatso
1. In addition of doing research work, chemical engineers in the industry reside in following functions/jobs:
a. Process Design Engineer (Ankur's post covered this part)
b. Process Engineer which some company called it Contact Process Engineer to differentiate with that of process design engineer. Their main function is to monitor and analyze plant performance that include reactor/catalyst, heat exchanger, pumps compressor etc. Also involved in troubleshooting of plant related problems.
c. Operations Engineer, working closely with plant operators in developing and improving operating procedures and day-to-day plant operations to ensure smooth operations and meet the production schedule as set up by the production planning engineer.
b. Process Control engineer, involves in developing and maintaining/troubleshooting Advanced Process Control system.
d. Production Planning Engineer, is the one will conduct optimization study (e.g using LP Software) and prepare short, medium and long terms production schedule that meets the market demand.
e. Process Safety Engineer, is responsible in developing activities of safety related such as safety training, developing safety procedures, risk assessment and play the role of HAZOPS leader.
2. However, I am not very familiar with manufacturing or industrial or quality engineer, since the job titles are not normally used in oil and gas or petrochemical plants. I do not know the difference.

Edited by S.AHMAD, 18 April 2012 - 09:28 PM.

[kkala]

Concerning Operations, LVBob's description was more or less applicable to a fertilizer plant, where I had worked. As once said, mission of Operations is to maximize production (rather economic output), but also protect workers from accidents and eliminate consequential pollution. Organization of production and maintenace, plus good relations with people working there, play an important role. There are non technical and economic factors to be considered.
Construction participation of Chemical Engineer is pointed out in traditional books, E.g. "Chemical Engineering Plant Design" by F Vilbrandt and C Dryden (McGraw-Hill, 1959). Locally I see this activity limited to check of materials (to be as specified), commissioning preparation (e.g. inert gas cleaning) and tests, hydrostatic tests, on field inspection to check compliance with PIDs and requirements in general, clarifications during problems having appeared in construction. Mechanical or civil Engineer has contribution to these affairs, too, but Chemical Engineer well understands a unit, e.g. a furnace, boiler or waste water treatment plant, with their instruments and commissioning tests.
Operating manuals or performance guarantee tests usually are not considered construction activities, but construction implements the first visual inspection.

[fatso]

Hi guys,

I have been looking on careerbuilder.com for operations engineering positions but there doesn't seem to be to many. Is it sometimes listed under a different name? I am talking about a plant engineer who monitors a plan and does routine investigations.

Thanks