21 replies to this topic

[sunny0]

Hi,

 

I need the data on Hydrocracking of Vacum Gass Oil to get lighter fractions.

Means i need material balance, process flow diagrams of process & equipment design instructions.

Please help.

 

Thanks.

[gegio1960]

you have to collect your basis of design and then ask for the Process Package to a Licensor (UOP, Axens, Shell, Haldor Topsoe).

[sunny0]

I am asking this data for my final year project of Chemical engineering degree. Are you sure UOP, Exon etc will help me in this regard? If so than please provide some links to contact them.

[S.AHMAD]

Try this one

 

http://www.topsoe.co...esses_2011.ashx

[gegio1960]

I am asking this data for my final year project....

...there is a student forum for that!

you can consult Meyers, Handbook of petroleum refining processes

[sunny0]

Can you please provide the link to download this book ?

[gegio1960]

mmmh...are you a lazy student? 

did you look for it at the university library... or other libraries near you?

otherwise, for less than 100$ 

http://www.amazon.co...=dp_ob_image_bk

every process engineer involved in design of refinery units should have access to this book

[sunny0]

I am not a lazy student but poor student.

Can't afford to buy it.

I hope if you can help me in any other way to provide me this book?

[thorium90]

Well, if you are not rich, then the internet is your haven. Provided you are not lazy either...

[Robert Montoya]

Hi refer to link: http://www.ziddu.com...82409X.zip.html

 

Material and Energy Balancing in the Process Industries, Volume 7: From Microscopic Balances to Large Plants

[gegio1960]

sunny,

I was a poor student and so I'd like to help you at the maximum extent. Please receive my questions in a proactive way....

Did you look at the university library?

Did you ask your teachers for guidance?

Why did you tag this post with crude, distillation column, fractionating column, vacuum column, naphtha? They are misleading tags for your post and so they create troubles..... and also refinery, hydrotreating and mass balance tags are not very adequate 

 

Anyway, your request is very very ambitious. Hydrocracking (HCK) is one of the more complex unit in a refinery and you can't develop the material balance around the reactor(s) by yourself. This knowledge is in the (very strong) hands of the Licensors mentioned in #2 (plus Chevron and Exxon) and they release part of them (the results, not the knowledge, of course) only after the payment of $$$$$$$$$$$$$ thru a license agreement!

More or less, the most important licensor for HCK is Chevron/Lummus (known as CLG) followed by UOP. Also Axens and Shell have placed several plants, mainly in Asia and Middle East, but the performances they offer are lower. Exxon plants are, generally, in Exxon refineries. Haldor Topsoe is a newcomer in this market; they have good catalysts and they're trying to enter the market with their plants (very few references).

The Licensors propose different processing schemes on the base of the requested performances, mainly the conversion (severity); briefly speaking you can see one or two stage schemes, once-thru or recycling, with conversion in the range 60-98%.

HCK can be used either for fuel production (mainly diesel and kero, this is its strongness with respect to FCC) or for lube oils.

The main important operating parameter is the pressure; a rough classification can be as follows:

- VGO Hydrotreater or Mild Hydrocracking: between 60 and 100 barg;

- (High Pressure) Hydrocracking: between 100 and 160 barg;

- Residue Hydrocracking: between 160 and 220 barg (this could be a completely different story.....).

Additional reactors may be added to the main scheme: decoking, demetallization, dewaxing, hydrotreating....

According to the products that you want to obtain, you can see differences in the fractionation of the hydrocracked products: generally an atmospheric distillation unit is enough but, in some cases, a vacuum distillation section is also added.

Other important sections of the HCK are:

- hydrogen compression (make-up and recycle);

- amine washing.

A lot of hydrogen is requested for the reactions: the make-up shall be very pure (from a PSA unit) and the recycle hydrogen shall be purified by H2S thru the amine washing section. To maintain an acceptable hydrogen purity, part of the recycle hydrogen is purged; anyway, it's a valuable stream and so it is usually purified thru a PSA or a Membrane unit.

 

This is just to start thinking about an HCK. I hope it's interesting for you and other young readers....

[Raj Mehta]

Sunny,

 

This is for you. Have fun 

 

http://www.scribd.co...yers-0071455914

 

http://www.4-shared.eu/handbook%20of%20petroleum%20refining%20processes%20rapidshare 

 

Just one request. Its all there out on google, solution to most of the problems. So whenever you get stuck, REMEMBER, to google. Make it habit. 

 

Thanks.

[sunny0]

Good Day GeGio 1960,

 

Sorry for late reply, i was busy in exams.

Your answers:

 

1. Did you look at the university library?

I am studying in a Pakistani University, there literature is too Old. I searched, but there wasn't that book.

 

Did you ask your teachers for guidance?

Yes, but they wasn't able to help me. Because hydrocracking plant is not installed in any oil refinery of Pakistan. So there is no one in Pakistan whom have practical experience of Hydrocracker.

 

Why did you tag this post with crude, distillation column, fractionating column, vacuum column, naphtha?

I am new to this website, please accept my apology. Next time i will keep this in mind.

 

I really appreciate your reply, you had definitely spent lot of time in writing a reply for me.

 

My Questions?

1. I understand Mild/Full hydrocracking basics. But Not familiar with the equipments used in the process.

I also understand cracking of vacuum residue that is Uniflex Process of UOP, right ?

But i need to know why we do hydrocracking for production of Maximum amount of Diesel, why dont we purchase new crude & process it to get the same Diesel from Atmospheric Distillation Column? Is it not economical ? Setting up hydrocracker plant in Million dollars & getting Diesel (That can also be obtained from New Crude processing ) ?

 

2. As you told me that reactor licensors are there, so can i bypass reactors material balance & make other equipments material balance like hydrogen addition, flow rate of feed, furnace balances, diesel/naptha amount etc etc... Please advice or state some parameters for me so i can see my roadmap of Hydrocracking of Diesel Project.

 

Please don't mind but you gave me a negative comment of my another post of Pump, can i ask why?

Students usually ask foolish questions because they want to clear their confusions & understand things, so it will be great if you people appreciate begginer's questions rather than negative feedback. Because i study books & asks question to understand things by discussion.

I hope you don't mind.

 

I really appreciate your efforts for me.

Kind Regards,

Sunny.

[gegio1960]

sunny,

 

Did you ask your teachers for guidance?

Yes, but they wasn't able to help me. Because hydrocracking plant is not installed in any oil refinery of Pakistan. So there is no one in Pakistan whom have practical experience of Hydrocracker.

My comment is: if the teachers don't know the matter, how they would evaluate your job?

 

 

Please don't mind but you gave me a negative comment of my another post of Pump, can i ask why? Students usually ask foolish questions because they want to clear their confusions & understand things, so it will be great if you people appreciate begginer's questions rather than negative feedback. Because i study books & asks question to understand things by discussion. I hope you don't mind.

My comment: I tried to invite you in making clever questions and to do them in the student forum. It was a non-sense, provocative question without any explanation, in the wrong forum. Full stop.

 

I really appreciate your reply, you had definitely spent lot of time in writing a reply for me.

So you should give a "like" green arrow to that post.... I know you're a lazy one!

 

I also understand cracking of vacuum residue that is Uniflex Process of UOP, right ?

It is one of the (few) possibilities. It's going to be adopted in Karachi NRL refinery. In this refinery, more than 20 years ago I designed/ revamped a couple of Plants in the Lube chain.

 

But i need to know why we do hydrocracking for production of Maximum amount of Diesel, why dont we purchase new crude & process it to get the same Diesel from Atmospheric Distillation Column? Is it not economical ? Setting up hydrocracker plant in Million dollars & getting Diesel (That can also be obtained from New Crude processing ) ?

This kind of questions are solved by techno-economic studies, often involving Linear Programming tecniques, during the planning phase of the projects. Basically, you adopt HCK since you want to increase Distillate productions while decreasing Residue (Fuel Oil) quantities. Trying to simply explain the basic:

- w/o the HCK you produce A quantity of VGO that has X commercial value

- with HCK you produce B quantity of Diesel that has Y commercial value

- HCK will cost you M as Investment (CAPEX) and N as operating expenses (OPEX)

- you'll decide to adopt HCK if (BY-AX) > (M+N)

 

As you told me that reactor licensors are there, so can i bypass reactors material balance & make other equipments material balance like hydrogen addition, flow rate of feed, furnace balances, diesel/naptha amount etc etc... Please advice or state some parameters for me so i can see my roadmap of Hydrocracking of Diesel Project.

The answers to these questions are (partially) included in the reference book I mentioned before (or other similar sources). Anyway, these answers will only be an estimate that should be confirmed by Licensor design. You can make an overall material balance around the HCK by adopting the following figures (only an orientative sample):

- hydrogen consumption: 2000 SCFB (standard cubic feet per barrel of VGO feed)

- gas & LPG: 6 %vol

- naphtha: 15 %vol

- diesel & kero: 76 %vol

- HCK bottoms (low sulphur fuel oil): 23 %vol

You can note that volume yields are higher than 100%: this happens because the hydrocracking decreases the average specific gravity of the products with respect to the feed. Of course the in/out mass balance shall be satisfied.

Please also note that your "Hydrocracking of Diesel" should be replaced by "Hydrocracking of VGO for Diesel production".

 

Good luck!

Edited by gegio1960, 16 March 2013 - 12:12 AM.

[sunny0]

Good Day Gegio1960,

 

My comment is: if the teachers don't know the matter, how they would evaluate your job?

Unfortunately, it is a fact that my teachers are not able to help me in this project. That is why i am taking help from NRL, Karachi.

Their engineers are helping me. But still not much data i have. I use to discuss the project with them on weekly basis.

 

My comment: I tried to invite you in making clever questions and to do them in the student forum. It was a non-sense, provocative question without any explanation, in the wrong forum. Full stop.

I had already committed that i am a new user of this site. So, this was a clear mistake from my end.

 

So you should give a "like" green arrow to that post.... I know you're a lazy one!

You don't know about my routine, so its really not bearable if you continuously keep saying (Lazy). I am not a lazy one! But you should think about tough routine of people. I am not much free so that i can just stick with the website & spend hours on it. I hope you understand.

 

It is one of the (few) possibilities. It's going to be adopted in Karachi NRL refinery. In this refinery, more than 20 years ago I designed/ revamped a couple of Plants in the Lube chain.

It was a great news that NRL is going to adapt this technology in 2016, but, i am not so sure that they will do!

After the complete failure of Colombia Oil Refinery in Canada because of UniFlex Technology, i am not sure that NRL will take the same risk. I will really appreciate if you can provide me some data on VGO Hydrocracker different from Books. I need real/practical info. Pfds with proper flow rates, temps, pressures etc will work.

 

This kind of questions are solved by techno-economic studies, often involving Linear Programming tecniques, during the planning phase of the projects. Basically, you adopt HCK since you want to increase Distillate productions while decreasing Residue (Fuel Oil) quantities. Trying to simply explain the basic:

- w/o the HCK you produce A quantity of VGO that has X commercial value

- with HCK you produce B quantity of Diesel that has Y commercial value

- HCK will cost you M as Investment (CAPEX) and N as operating expenses (OPEX)

- you'll decide to adopt HCK if (BY-AX) > (M+N)

Understood. Appreciated!

 

The answers to these questions are (partially) included in the reference book I mentioned before (or other similar sources). Anyway, these answers will only be an estimate that should be confirmed by Licensor design. You can make an overall material balance around the HCK by adopting the following figures (only an orientative sample):

- hydrogen consumption: 2000 SCFB (standard cubic feet per barrel of VGO feed)

- gas & LPG: 6 %vol

- naphtha: 15 %vol

- diesel & kero: 76 %vol

- HCK bottoms (low sulphur fuel oil): 23 %vol

Thanks. Flow rates of VGO will help more.

 

Hydrocracking of VGO for Diesel production

Definitely. According to my research we have two designs for hydrocracker:

1. To Get Maximum Naptha Yeild (Low Pressure)

2. To get Maximum Diesel Yeild (High Pressure)

 

I am inclined towards second one.

 

I really appreciate your reply.

But do remember, i am not a lazy student.

I have to manage time for things in my schedule.

Kind Regards,

Sunny.

[ankur2061]

Sunny,

 

This is for you. Have fun 

 

http://www.scribd.co...yers-0071455914

 

http://www.4-shared.eu/handbook%20of%20petroleum%20refining%20processes%20rapidshare 

 

Just one request. Its all there out on google, solution to most of the problems. So whenever you get stuck, REMEMBER, to google. Make it habit. 

 

Thanks.

To Raj & All Students,

 

Websites like 4shared  and Rapidshare peddle pirated literature and books or in other words are a source of stolen intellectual property. Cheresources forum rules prohibit providing links for such websites which provide stolen intellectual property.

 

Any posts which provide links to websites which deal in stolen intellectual property will not be tolerated on "Cheresources". Pleae refrain providing links for such wbesites. Posts related to such links will be censured and / or deleted.

 

Regards,

Ankur.

[Raj Mehta]

Sunny,

 

This is for you. Have fun 

 

http://www.scribd.co...yers-0071455914

 

http://www.4-shared.eu/handbook%20of%20petroleum%20refining%20processes%20rapidshare 

 

Just one request. Its all there out on google, solution to most of the problems. So whenever you get stuck, REMEMBER, to google. Make it habit. 

 

Thanks.

To Raj & All Students,

 

Websites like 4shared  and Rapidshare peddle pirated literature and books or in other words are a source of stolen intellectual property. Cheresources forum rules prohibit providing links for such websites which provide stolen intellectual property.

 

Any posts which provide links to websites which deal in stolen intellectual property will not be tolerated on "Cheresources". Pleae refrain providing links for such wbesites. Posts related to such links will be censured and / or deleted.

 

Regards,

Ankur.

Hi, Mr. Ankur,

 

Thank you for highlighting my mistake and henceforth I'll make sure that no such links are shared on this forum by me.

 

Sorry once again. 

 

Regards,

Raj Mehta

[gegio1960]

Sunny,

following our discussion:

 

 

It was a great news that NRL is going to adapt this technology in 2016, but, i am not so sure that they will do! After the complete failure of Colombia Oil Refinery in Canada because of UniFlex Technology, i am not sure that NRL will take the same risk.

Strange path. Usually the decision to adopt a certain Refinery Process Scheme is taken after deep and careful techno-economic studies, a Licensor Selection and a FEED Project. Anyway, I easily understand that an extremely expensive Unit (better to speak of Complex) like Residue Hydrocracker can't be sustained by a refinery like NRL.

 

I will really appreciate if you can provide me some data on VGO Hydrocracker different from Books. I need real/practical info. Pfds with proper flow rates, temps, pressures etc will work.

You're a student and you've to deeply study the contents of the books, good books. They are real/practical info, very useful for your work. For a licensed unit, like HCK, PFDs with operating conditions are confidential documents

 

Flow rates of VGO will help more.

This is one of the basic data that the Process Designer (you, in this case) shall decide/know at the beginning of the project.

 

I am inclined towards second one

The yields I already provided to you are relevant to an HCK for max diesel production.

 

Good luck

Edited by gegio1960, 17 March 2013 - 03:03 PM.

[sunny0]

Thanks Mr. Gegio 1960,

 

I will take few more minutes of you on this post.

I now completely understand that i can not design reactor for the Hydrcracker.

But i am able to design Furnace for the reactor, Furnace of the Distillation column which is also in the Hydrocraker & Design of Column.

 

Is this the pathway i can adopt?

Designing three equipments of Hydrocracker:

1. Furnace for reactor

2. Furnace for Column

3. Column Design

 

Please comment.

Kind Regards,

Sunny.

[gegio1960]

Yes, you can do something... with a lot of assumptions.

I think you can start by making a conceptual Process Flow Drawing (PFD) showing the main equipment and streams.

A process simulation will help you a lot.

Edited by gegio1960, 19 March 2013 - 11:53 PM.

[thorium90]

For a design project, you should focus more on the process of designing it rather than get caught up with the numbers. The purpose of all these projects is not for you to design a state of the art new refinery process. It is simply to get you to learn to apply what you have learnt in the previous years to something more practical than exam questions. Demonstrate an understanding of the concepts like heat and mass transfer, chemical kinetics and thermodynamics etc.

Use your understanding of the process and some of the literature provided to make a reasonable PFD. You dont need exact values of pressures or temperatures, create a suitable basis to work on.

I wouldnt quite say you cant design a hydrocracker. You know how it works, the feed, the products, the reactions etc, you can already make a basic model of it. It wont be rigorous but it demonstrates sufficient understanding and application of chemical engineering concepts.

Attached Files

•  Excerpt_Chemical Process Technology_Moulijn.pdf   534.82KB   97 downloads

Edited by thorium90, 20 March 2013 - 12:35 AM.

[sunny0]

Good Day,

 

I am thankful to all of you for your answers.

I really appreciate it.

 

Kind Regards,

Sunny.